tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post842108682251175941..comments2024-03-28T08:50:57.015+01:00Comments on Beyond Fomalhaut: [BLOG] Noise or Signal? Further Thoughts on Creativity and RandomnessMelanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-50875014989658107062019-07-23T02:00:41.135+02:002019-07-23T02:00:41.135+02:00You are missing the point. It's simple. Don...You are missing the point. It's simple. Don't randomize something you don't understand. If you are knowledgable in a subject then your random tables will be interesting and intelligent and useful. Since Gygax created the milieu from scratch his random tables are definitive, instructive, interesting and useful.<br /><br />On the other hand, OSR people, all of them not most, don't appear to have any knowledge about any subject. It is as if they venerate the early-teen state of knowledge of the world, far into their forties, which is immature, illogical, ridiculous and pleasing only to jam and faeces smeared infants.Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-46865439714546397452019-07-19T20:15:08.613+02:002019-07-19T20:15:08.613+02:00Maybe OSR idiots are not interested in geography, ...Maybe OSR idiots are not interested in geography, just in playing a game, and the tables favored by them reflect that, their very point being the juxtaposition of things that don't fit but may reveal ideas never seen before. <br /><br />Btw I doubt that even Gygax had the whole range of bona fide geographical, demographical, biological etc. credentials for such a serious undertaking. He just spew forth reams of tables that may _look_ "scientific" to eager little nerds, but in fact are just as arbitrary as the surreal output of OSR idiots, just way lengthier. I mean, we're discussing the distribution of sphynxes and manticores over imaginary mountains and wastes - how "scientific" that needs to be? And what use that "science" would have?<br /><br />Note that I'm not advocating total senseless randomization. Even imaginary worlds need cohesion for the players' actions to have real consequences and weight (or to put it another way, if anything is possible, then nothing is interesting). I just can't help but marvel at some people's dogged determination to drive a square peg in a round hole - i. e. enforcing utterly boring (and what's worse, almost always useless) "scientific" approach on something that serves as a vehicle to escape from it. Voljahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08826776454392269862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-62502846391328677392019-07-19T17:43:22.762+02:002019-07-19T17:43:22.762+02:00I can't find that info, but do mail me at beyo...I can't find that info, but do mail me at beyond DOT fomalhaut AT gmail DOT com!Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-75027511070950892062019-07-19T17:07:38.096+02:002019-07-19T17:07:38.096+02:00Hey Gabor, I'd like to discuss publishing some...Hey Gabor, I'd like to discuss publishing some of your posts in a new OS gaming magazine. Would you be able to send me an email (I trust my gmail address shows up in your moderation panel)? Eric Nieudanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07663906394653460662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-57081547367378779852019-07-19T00:05:42.177+02:002019-07-19T00:05:42.177+02:00It is not any individual entry that requires knowl...It is not any individual entry that requires knowledge but the entire information content of the table. Idiots in the OSR collect things into tables which don't go together because they don't understand what they are trying to randomize.<br /><br />A good example is a random terrain generator. You need to understand geology to create a table which would produce sensible results. OSR idiots have never understood this principle.Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-38823876143392044322019-07-18T21:22:47.111+02:002019-07-18T21:22:47.111+02:00200 orcs AND 3 pterodactyls, however... Orcs vs. p...200 orcs AND 3 pterodactyls, however... Orcs vs. pterodactyls? Orcs <i>riding</i> pterodactyls? Intelligent pterodactyls ruling over savage orcs?Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-50932527309311129772019-07-18T19:22:40.831+02:002019-07-18T19:22:40.831+02:00If your idea of condensed wisdom is "200 orcs...If your idea of condensed wisdom is "200 orcs" or "3 pterodactyls", then sure. But there's a reason why people stopped using these tables: they are boring as hell. <br /><br />Other tables can produce gibberish, of course, but it can be avoided even with a tiny bit of common sense and intuition. If it sounds like artsy BS to you, it will probably sound like that for your players as well. <br /><br />Voljahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08826776454392269862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-36192619819990710572019-07-18T02:31:44.338+02:002019-07-18T02:31:44.338+02:00==The “Ruins & Relics” table from Ready Ref Sh...==The “Ruins & Relics” table from Ready Ref Sheets, the random wilderness encounter charts in the Dungeon Masters Guide ... These tables are foundational.<br /><br />These tables are instructive and exemplary but not foundational. There is no imperative to build *on* or *from* them. IMO what most people don't understand about these fundamental random tables is that they are abstractions of and reductions down from a core of ideas that have already been established. Random tables should be a crystalization of immense knowledge. Typically since 1982, especially in the OSR random tables are lists mindlessly mashed together in the hope that sparks will fly. The original concept was 'how do we capture the immense knowledge we have on this subject in a way to create variety'. The OSR concept is 'here are diverse lists which when combined will create random, foolish or bizarre garbage.' This might be a reason why AD&D people form the 1980s don't recognize OSR writers.<br /><br />TLDR - good random tables condense or abstract knowledge; worthless random tables mush lists together in the hope of creating sparks.<br /><br />The first two JG Wilderlands supplements are jaw-dropping. The tables are unwieldy but magnificent. The reader always has the sense that the outcomes are contained.<br /><br />The AD&D wilderness encounter tables are exemplary in the sense that they condense information that Gygax had in his head, masses of data to tables of data. Poor random tables compound arbitrary lists, into a gibberish of hopeful explosions, that is not the way to create.<br />Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6188119851730922397.post-36468261960011435582019-07-17T23:03:52.368+02:002019-07-17T23:03:52.368+02:00I don't think it's very complicated - it c...I don't think it's very complicated - it comes down to the power of the images included. Red goblin / blue goblin / green goblin - that's bland as sliced bread. But a simple matrix with armor / dream / tentacle and half-eyed / daughter / orphan can get you somewhere. <br /><br />The Dungeon Dozen or the Black Hack have the right proportions, but there are plenty of others. Btw William Burroughs' cut-up technique (cut apart a page of text and rearrange it) aimed for something in this vein. <br /><br />Let's see where the above could go: square birds in purple sauce - you may find this on some monster's table, the birds from a bizarre world next door with square life forms or twisted dimensions. Serpent gate - perhaps just a portal carved in the image of a serpent. Or giant serpents turning into round interdimensional portals when biting their own tails. How can one coerce them to do this or decipher which kind of snake goes where? Or perhaps you just need to be swallowed?Voljahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08826776454392269862noreply@blogger.com